Donna
I was planning to ask about PPE, face masks and face shields and how that impacts your communications. So please talk about that a little bit more if you can.

Kevin
Sure! I've been checking in with the Deaf community on social media. People are upset about using masks because it makes it very difficult to communicate. I understand that. When I'm working on site, which is not very often, I don't go out very often, but if I have to go out, I still have to wear a mask. We need to use our facial expressions, especially our eyes because they can be seen above the mask, with more emphasis. For example, if I go to the store and somebody is wearing a mask, I use my phone to communicate. I used to communicate by writing back and forth, but I wouldn't do that today. Nobody wants to touch shared pen and paper! So, I will text on my device and the person will respond back on their own device. So that's a little bit different. It's a challenge but at the same time we have to remember that we have to be flexible because people's lives are important. We don't want to get anyone else sick or get sick ourselves.

Deaf people are so tough and so brave.

Donna
That is complicated. Interesting. You talked about being close to your family and friends. How did you keep in contact with them during this time?

Kevin
Video phones of course! At first, we only used video phones or texting to communicate. We used to visit each other's homes but now, of course, nobody is doing that anymore. The Deaf community is already so isolated. COVID has made that isolation even worse. Sometimes people will ask if they can just come over for a little bit. But I feel so nervous, I have to say "no". I know how important communication is, but I don't want to get sick and I don't want to get anybody else sick. I feel really bad saying no to people. They tell me they're so isolated and bored at home and I get that but again I mention 'flexibility' and they understand. I keep coming back to that word: 'flexibility'. Communication is such a big issue in our community, but safety is critical right now. It's important that we stay flexible until, hopefully, a vaccine becomes available soon. I noticed that in the beginning nobody visited anybody. But as time has gone by you might visit with family, close family or partners. But that's it. A very small circle. Communication barriers have gotten so much worse and isolation has gotten so much worse due to COVID. Mental health is a real issue too. I'm lucky because I'm on a double lot so I can get out and walk around. If I need to do something, [I] can just go outside. I have land around me. I'm very lucky to have that. But I'm always thinking, what if I lived further out and had limited resources? Those are the bravest people. Deaf people are so tough and so brave.

Donna
Social isolation is a serious problem.

Kevin
Yes, yes it really is!

Donna
That's a real conflict. Okay now, back over to Brian.

Brian
You've talked a little bit about connecting with your friends and family. You said there's a lot more virtual communication going on in the community. What are the positives you can share with us? How has having those virtual options given you a different perspective and have a positive benefit?

Kevin
Positives?

Brian
Yes! Some new and positive perspectives. Some benefits that you've found?

Kevin
You mean with family and friends?

Brian
Just in general

Kevin
Hmmm... let me think about that. Maybe. A lot of Deaf people were unfamiliar with Zoom. I had to reach out to them and explain what Zoom was and how it worked. Most Deaf people are familiar with FaceTime because they use it often so they're very familiar with it. Weird, before COVID-19 I didn't even have internet at home. I always used my phone to communicate. I used my phone or I used my iPad. Then COVID-19 hit and everything changed. I had to ask for internet services to be set up in my home because I was getting so many video calls online and I needed to use a lot more internet. So, I finally got the internet set up in my home but still it felt like it wasn't enough. It wasn't powerful enough. It would freeze up from time to time and the image often wasn't clear. I realized maybe it was because so many people were trying to use the internet at the same time. I don't know. I just know that it was different than it was before. But with video calls a lot of Deaf people didn't know anything about Zoom. I would mention it to people, and they would ask me for more information. I told them there was an app they could use where you could see multiple people at the same time on a single screen. People really liked it! And then with the Gallaudet situation you would see Zoom being used more often and eventually people became more familiar with it. And then more and more people began to use Zoom. A couple of weeks ago I had a bunch of Deaf friends meet on Zoom. And we really enjoyed being able to see those old friends and new faces too. To be able to talk so naturally on that platform - it was really nice.

My fear, however, is about hospitals... understand I am a Deaf interpreter... is that hospitals will look to use video phone technology more often. They won't welcome live interpreters anymore. They'll think they don't need to. They'll be able to say that it seems to work, even though it doesn't always seem to work. And I'm concerned they'll become overly dependent on the virtual technology option. So, I have mixed feeling about it. I have noticed that there are still problems from time to time using Zoom today. Still, you have to ask people to repeat themselves. Sometimes people drop out or the service can drop out. They have to reconnect. There's a lot of work to make sure everybody can be seen clearly. It requires more work but again, it all comes back to being flexible. I'm hoping down the road, after COVID is behind us, that we are not continuing to rely on this technology. I really hope not.

10:57
Brian
Good point. As the world has moved online right now to a virtual life do you feel you have more access to things or less access to things? For example, as many projects are being worked on right now, many organizations are realizing they need to provide more information online and then realizing they have to make that information accessible, so they are providing more interpreting services. Things that may not have been accessible in the past are accessible today. Do you feel there is so much information available online right now, but you have less access to things? Do you understand what I mean?

Kevin
Good question. I need to think a little bit. I think that, at the same time that I'm talking about being flexible, access to information is still very limited. And that hurts a little bit. Because we can't see people in person, we can't see their facial expressions and body language. We're dependent on the limited information we can see on a screen. For me personally, I love people and I love to be with people. I want to see people in person and hang out with them! But now that we're staying home and social distancing I feel like, it's not exactly 'fake', but it's not the same as being able to see each other in person. And again, I'm really concerned that the hearing majority who is in charge and making decisions will think, "hey this new technology is so cool" and buy into the hype. And they'll want to keep using this technology when all this is over. I'm very concerned about that because the Deaf community already has such limited access. Hearing people, for example, can get information on their headphones while they're listening to material. They can manage technology much faster with more options that benefit them. Those things will work for them but not necessarily for us. For example, if I'm creating a video message in ASL I can't translate it into an English text so quickly. Hearing people, however, have an App where they can quickly speak into their phones and have it automatically transcribed into English for them. I can't sign into my phone and have access to the same feature. So how am I supposed to use that kind of technology to communicate? My phone can't read my signs and voice it for me. It's not the same. It's not equal access in terms of technology. Even though the hearing people who have the power think, 'oh this is so cool and fast and new, let's move this technology along!' But actually, this technology is very limited in how it benefits us. Where is the app that recognizes my sign language and automatically transcribes that into English for a hearing person?! There is an app where you can bring up a sign language interpreter so I can communicate with someone in a store. But you have to pay for that service! I have to pay for that service!? VRS (video relay services) have been thinking about how to provide access in the community. For example, if I need to go to a store or order food, those types of things. That service would be free on my phone. I could sign into the phone and the interpreter will voice it for whoever I'm talking too. Nothing like that exists currently but maybe it's something they are planning. The apps that are being created today are really for the benefit of hearing people to give them quick and easy access. Access for the Deaf community still lags behind. Before COVID, they would provide in person interpreting services and that would close some of that gap. But now that COVID has hit we are further behind because of that unequal access to on par technology. So, it's interesting. But I think there is an opportunity out there for companies to recognize this need and hopefully create something to provide Deaf people with more access. But I guess we'll see.

14:41
Brian
Another problem too, I speak as an educator, is the supply. Where are all those interpreters? I mean, yes, it's a beautiful idea. Can you imagine that? Just being able to pull up an interpreter on your phone any time you need them? To have an interpreter in your pocket every day? But then you'd have to back up and start with making the profession something that works together with those industries to create that kind of supply.

Donna
That's why representation is so important. Hearing people can come up with all these ideas 'for' Deaf people but they're missing out on important information. They need to have Deaf people involved in the process to capture their point of view and work together. It's all about representation.

Kevin
Good point. But I would challenge you: are they 'missing' information? Or purposely overlooking information? I don't know. Are hearing people actually just unaware of information or overlooking things without realizing it. That's important right? Because I have personal experience that I can bring. Everyone has their own unique personal experiences. And we need to respect that in each other. Because we've lived these experiences.

Donna
That's true

16:01

Social opportunities help us develop language. If there is no social interaction how does language develop and grow over time?

Brian
Related to that, more about access - specifically online now. In the future when we're no longer social distancing should we drop the online access and move away from that? Or do you think there are things worth keeping online. I mean can virtual life continue after COVID? Should it continue after we're no longer social distancing?

Kevin
I've been doing a lot of reading and it seems that this might continue for about five years. That's what they're saying at least, I don't know. The doctors and the medical scientists really don't know. So that's a big concern. Does that mean we should drop everything after COVID has been resolved? I think we should continue to use both. Maybe for a quarter of the time use the virtual option. I think there is a benefit for Deaf people to have that virtual experience. Because like I said before Zoom is a good example. Deaf people didn't know anything about Zoom! That means that they are using that technology to gain more access, but they've had to become more familiar with how to use it. So maybe a quarter of the time. The other three quarters of the time I say should be in person because that in-person social experience is so important. Those social opportunities help us develop language. If there is no social interaction how does language develop and grow over time? So, there is a great benefit and I'd suggest that three quarters of the time our interactions should be in person. Those communications should be in-person in order to benefit and improve our language over time. But then the remaining quarter of the time could still be virtual. I think people would be able to use and apply their new experiences that way. So, I think we should use both. I don't think we should just drop the online option because internet usage is going to increase dramatically. We want to be able to take advantage of those options too. I don't think we should drop it. But I don't encourage only using the internet and dropping in person connections. I think that would hurt the Deaf community because that would hurt the development of our language. We already have so many problems with children birth to five in terms of language acquisition. This would only make it worse if we were to drop any access to online options. The Deaf community would become more isolated. They would have less access to educational opportunities, less academic learning opportunities and we'd see a severe decline in language development so I wouldn't recommend that either. I think it's a delicate balance. I think there's a benefit to both and it's a learning process. It could be that somewhere down the line, internet options take off and we see a big change. We might see those apps being developed with interpreters ready to go! That technology might catch up and give us equal access eventually. It's possible down the road. I certainly hope so!

18:40
Donna
It's a delicate balance. It really depends on each situation. You don't want to throw out the baby with the bathwater. It's a case by case basis on how you apply each.

Kevin
It's supply and demand.

Brian
Sometimes it takes something terrible to happen to foster innovation. People see what can happen; problems that have to be solved. And then the creative process begins.

Kevin
That's right. For me personally, it's my personal belief that we need to think outside the box. Sometimes people don't think until something like COVID hits and then it forces people to think outside the box and to become creative. But like Donna was saying representation matters! We can have people being creative, trying to solve problems, but without representation you're leaving out too many people. We have to bring more people into the process to add more creative points of view and then we'll have solutions that are equal for all!

Donna
That's right.

Kevin
That's so important.

Brian
I'll turn it over now to Donna

19:43
Donna
I'm so enjoying watching your comments! Okay, my next question has three parts. Tell me a little bit about your experience in medical settings - trying to see a doctor for example. Any challenges you face in that setting? In educational settings, if you're looking to take a class or access your education, and finally employment settings. So medical, education and employment settings. Can you talk a little bit about any challenges you've experienced?

Kevin
Medical. Pre-COVID I had already been to the doctor, so I don't think I'm going back until sometime in the fall. October or something like that. But not for a while. I do have some concerns. Will it be virtual or in person? I don't know what to expect. I guess we'll have to see. But I'm hoping it will be in person because the doctor can take a better look. So, I think that would be my yearly exam. I'd like that to be in person so he can get a good look at me and make sure that I'm ok. I don't know how you do that virtually.

20:49
Donna
Have you seen a doctor since March, virtually or in person?

Kevin
No

20:56
Kevin
I'm healthy! Fingers crossed I don't need to go to the doctor! But I do have some concerns about any future appointments. Even into the fall. What is that going to look like? I don't know. If I have to contact them. But work related, I've avoided doctor's appointments or medical settings. Those have to be virtual! So that's very different than before.

Now in terms of education, I work in a school with students. Prior to COVID, I was working as I typically would until the second week in March. And then everything closed. Classes stopped and students didn't have any information. We didn't have a way of explaining what was happening to them and they were home with families who couldn't communicate with them about what was going on. Students didn't know what was happening or why school was closed. It was heartbreaking. In school you are able to communicate and connect with students. I'd talk to them about current events, share the world with them and expose them to more information. Then all of the sudden, at the last minute, COVID struck and school was closed. Even though the school did go virtual and posted information online in ASL, still it's not the same. Some of our students are what we call 'Deaf plus'. They require a lot of physical interactions. They were limited in what they could see. So how do they get access to information? Again, it was heartbreaking.

22:22
Donna
Deaf students are really impacted right now. It's really difficult to know the right thing to do. If school should be opened or not. It's even more complicated for Deaf students. The isolation is much worse for them.

Kevin
It's much worse. It's worse because they don't know what's going on. I can't imagine what that feels like. For me, personally, I feel like I need to know everything. I'm always reading. Before, as a teacher, I did everything I could to keep students informed. I'm always trying to stay informed. It's very important to me. My family always drove that home - the importance of information. My mother is an interpreter and she was always telling me, "it's important for you to know things". She was always really direct with me to make sure I was informed. So now I'm thinking about our deaf children today who have parents who can't communicate with them. They want to ask questions about what's happening, but they are isolated at home and alone. It's difficult to think about. I think about after COVID, I'm really going to work harder to give back. I've always been someone who did give back, but I feel it's even more important today. I am so concerned about those deaf children today. Yes, I put myself in their shoes and try to imagine how they might feel, and I just can't.

23:33
Donna
You were so lucky growing up. You had communication with your family. You had sign language at home, but many deaf kids don't have communication at home with their families. They don't have parents who can sign. I understand.

Kevin
It's heartbreaking.

23:48
Donna
I agree. Another question. You've mentioned that you love to read and stay informed. You also said that sometimes you're frustrated when there isn't a sign language interpreter. Sometimes there is an interpreter and sometimes there isn't on TV. Where do you go to get information? What resource do you use to find out what's happening with Covid-19? Where do you get information from primarily?

Kevin
Luckily, I'm on the Mayor's Commission for People with Disabilities. So, I am able to reach out to the committee and get information directly from them. Of course, most of that information is in printed English. It is very lengthy and requires a lot of reading. My English is pretty good so I can access it that way, but it's not easy. Of course, I prefer to get information in my first language of ASL. It is so much faster and so much easier for me. It's a benefit that I can switch from one language to another, as I am bi-lingual. It's a great benefit that I can get information in both English and ASL. But again, it comes back to being flexible. I have a language background so I can access English using email easily. But I think about the typical member of the Deaf community and that's why I'm always trying to share information I receive with the greater community on Facebook. Any information, in various formats, that I receive from the commission I try to share and make accessible. I want to make sure that the Deaf community has access, myself included. I don't keep any information that I receive to myself. I make sure that I share that information with my community. It's important to share the information. Sharing information is a top priority right now.

25:14
Donna
Sharing information in ASL not only in English.

Kevin
Right!

Donna
Ok, I'm going to turn it over to Brian.

When I was growing up, I always thought of myself, identity wise, as Deaf first. But my mother would say to me 'Oh no, you're Black first.' ... Now I finally understand.

Brian
I'm going to go off script a little bit because I want to hold on the next question until closer to the end. I want to ask you now, because we know that right now Black Lives Matter is going on at the same time as this COVID-19 situation. How has the COVID situation impacted Black Lives Matter and the things that are going on with you?

Kevin
Whew, that's very deep and very emotional. I see so many things going on right now with Black Lives Matter. Growing up I always knew that concept was important. It was something I was aware of, but I didn't see that language until about 2012 - 2013 when a Black woman coined the phrase. But growing up it was something I always knew. That my life mattered. That was important and it was because my mother always drilled it into me. It's funny, when I was growing up, I always thought of myself, identity wise, as Deaf first. But my mother would say to me "Oh no, you're Black first". I would tell my mother that my Deafness comes first because, when I wake up in the morning, I'm Deaf! That's who I am, deafness comes first. My friends and family would wake up to any loud sound in the night, but I wouldn't. I was Deaf. Interesting. But my mother would tell me, "no, your Black skin comes first". It really confused me initially. Until today with Black Lives Matter. Now I finally understand. I really get it and it touches me deeply. As a Black person I know that inside I'm Kevin. I'm Kevin Mundy. But how the world views me from the outside they view me not as Kevin Mundy but as a Black man. I remember also, especially most recently, but this happens often, sometimes people will be scared. A white woman crossing the street will see me, grab her bag and turn the other way. I thought, why would they do something like that? Even though I'm smiling at them, they'll turn and go the other way. They're clearly scared of me. I've learned this over time. Interacting with the police is another example. I have been stopped in the past. I always thought if I smiled and was very, very, friendly I'd be safe. But my mother has drilled this into me; if you get stopped by the police it's important that you stay calm. I thought my mother was being ridiculous, I thought I was fine! I had to keep that smile on my face in order to stay safe. It was ridiculous. I imagine that if I played it tough and kept a neutral expression on my face, they might view me differently and treat me very differently. I have to work hard to keep that very, very, friendly expression on my face. My white friends don't have to do that. They can keep a neutral facial expression. They can even get into it with the cops. When I saw that behavior, I was shocked, that's something I could never do! Because I know I'm perceived differently. They could shoot me if I tried to talk back to them. But white people have no problem talking back to the police. It's very different experience.

So, when Black Lives Matter happened, I got it. I completely understood and I was able to reflect on my experiences growing up and remember my mother's message; that your Black identity was first because of the color of my skin. That had a huge impact on me. I remember a few months ago when the looting started, the destruction and the chaos. I watched that happening and I thought, "so be it". That means things are really out of whack! I remember back in 2010 two Black men held me up at gun point. It's funny, that moment is seared into my brain - I'll never forget it. It was June 3, 2010. They held me up at gun point in South Philly and I remember this part clearly. Looking at them and saying it's the system's fault. Because they seemed a little unsure of themselves about what to do. I looked at them and thought, "ok". I gave them what they wanted. They gave me back my phone and my wallet, but they kept the money. I said thank you because they could see clearly that I was Deaf because I was signing. So, they gave me my things back and I said "thank you" and they took off. But at that moment I really got it. I knew it was the system's fault. I didn't even blame them. Somehow, I was at peace with myself. I wasn't upset. I knew it was the system that had failed these two men. I was struck by it.

So, when Black Lives Matter happened, I looked back and remembered that day when I was held up. I understood why Black Lives Matter happened. Because of the severe inequality. The inequality of access to jobs. The inequality of access to education. White people get to go to better schools. They get better jobs and climb the corporate ladder faster. Even if a Black person is better qualified, they still give the opportunity to the less qualified white employee. So, I understood why they felt they had to rob me, and I didn't blame them.

It's funny I remember my mother was always fighting for my education and I would tell mom to chill out! "Relax!" But she would keep going. My mother would always say that Kevin is his own boss he knows what he wants! I remember I didn't want to have to take speech class and my mother said "ok"! She went into the school and they said he had to have speech and my mom would say "no, Kevin said no". She would tell them, "I know my son. You don't know my son." They were very taken aback by her. And now you can see who I am today and what an impact that had on me in my life. Because of my mother and the tireless way she fought for me. She knew that as a Black man it wasn't going to be easy. Even though I always told my mom to chill. When Black Lives Matter happened, I shared all these things with my mom and she would say "see, I told you". I had nothing to say in response. Imagine if I didn't have communication with my family, I might be a completely different person today. I might have a much tougher personality. Things could happen. But my mother was always making sure that I was informed. And when situations would come up, I was able to apply my knowledge to those situations. It's still so sad though. We shouldn't all have to take sit back silently until Black Lives Matter finally happens and forces us, as a society, to take a look at it. But it's time for change and we have to move on.

31:53
Brian
Right. Exactly. Has COVID impacted your access to that kind of information?

Kevin
To Black Lives Matter or in general?

Brian
Yes, has COVID impacted that?

Kevin
Really, I think people are staying home more. Actually, before, the world was just chugging along as it always did. Just moving along and people were busy. They couldn't look up to notice things. Even though they saw abuse happening, people were busy. They just kept going through their busy lives until everybody was forced to stay home. Because we're all human, people had a chance to start to think more, to see things on TV and social media more. And then the George Floyd incident happened, and things just blew up. Even white people were saying, "what?! Why would they do that?!". I'd say "hello! This has been happening for ages". Unfortunately, it took this man to die for people to finally see. But I'm grateful anyway. I know COVID-19 is not a positive thing but the point is I think people had more time in isolation and away from their busy lives to stay home, be in touch and to really see what's happening. People are able to record and share things that are happening so quickly. For me, my mind is always going and I'm thinking if this had happened in the past, before the internet, it might have been a totally different situation maybe. But WITH the internet that's really helped Black Lives Matter. It's helped put the spotlight where it needs to be. Black Lives Matter has gotten a tremendous amount of energy and attention.

It's funny, I have to say, it used to be that I wasn't very open to white people. People who would say 'all lives matter'. That bothered me. Then people started learning and sharing and then white people started to get involved. They were out on the streets marching with us. That really touched me. It meant they finally understood what was happening. So now the big problem is that People of Color, specifically Latinx people are struggling, trying to understand Black Lives Matter. We need to make sure they are educated and informed. Hispanic People of Color have not felt included. A friend of mine is Puerto Rican and he said "nobody saw us when the hurricane hit Puerto Rico and caused so much damage. The United States Government ignored Puerto Rico!". That was his experience and I really saw his point of view. Black Lives matter is under an umbrella of many people of color. Because we have similar experiences with racism and need to support each other. People seem to understand but we have to keep educating. It's really important to continue to expose people so that they can be aware and move forward. I think in the future we're going to see tremendous positive change in the system. I'm really hopeful that that's going to happen.

35:05
Brian
True. Thank you. This is our last topic. Once COVID-19 is behind us, if you could look into the future what do you think life will look like compared to how it looks now. What will be the same and what will be different?

Kevin
For the last couple of weeks, I've noticed white people are much friendlier. It seems they're less afraid and when I'm walking around there is more acknowledgement from people. I've really noticed that. It's so nice. I'm hopeful that in the future, once COVID-19 is behind us, we'll see more of that. We'll be able to interact more. People will be friendlier and just see a person's character. Not the color of their skin. Just see who the person is and treat each other the same. That would be my hope. Hopefully there will be more opportunities for us all to be equal and like I said before, if everyone had equal access to employment opportunities and everyone had equal opportunities to education and a good home environment... if there was true equality, we'd have less crime. We'd have to pour much less money into the prison system. Our schools would have more money. If everyone were treated equally it would be cheaper. Our country would save a lot of money and not have to spend it all funneling it into the prison system. We wouldn't have white politicians benefiting themselves by taking advantage of Black people of color. If everyone was equal, life would be perfect. Maybe we'd have fewer problems to focus on. For example, we could focus on Deaf people to make sure they have better access. We could focus more on people with disabilities and not have to be so distracted with these issues of racism which are so deeply embedded. We need to fix the system first. We have to clean out racism first from our system. Once we make that change, we'll be free to focus on other needs in our community. It would benefit all of us.

If you can imagine in 200 years to achieve that kind of equality. I can't even begin to imagine what the world would look like. Just a beautiful society with tremendous economic growth. Our country would be wealthy; number one in the world. Maybe we'd have universal health care and maybe even more Black presidents. Maybe even a Deaf president. Maybe a female president. Racism will always be there but we could minimize it so we could focus on other areas of need. But right now, we're all so hotly focused on racism. It goes so deep. It's in our roots. It's too deep. It will take a lot of work because of over 400 years of history. There is a lot of cleaning up to do. With Black Lives Matter and COVID, I think it's helping move things along at a greater pace. Yes, people are apologetic. But there's a difference between talk and action. We need things to change. People need to get involved and do something.

38:25
Brian
Beautiful. I for one feel good about all of that knowing that you are involved in the leadership and change

38:45
Donna
Thank you for all your hard work. All the work that you're doing. I've really enjoyed hearing you talk about that. About the external conflicts and the internal conflicts layered on each other and just how complicated this issue is. Thank you so much for sharing that information and for your time. Is there anything else that you feel like you want to add, or you want to say? Have we missed anything?

Kevin
I just want to thank you for this opportunity to be listened to. And for your open minds and your open hearts. That's what's so important. I hope that as we move forward in the Deaf community, we can engage all races, all skin colors. The important part is to keep our hearts and minds open and treat each other equally. To support each other and work together. If we're in this together we can beat COVID-19. But if we're divided and fighting with each other, COVID-19 will be here to stay. We need to work together. We bleed the same color. We breathe the same air. So please let's look at this together and work together. Yes, sometimes we're going to have conflict and that normal. That's the human experience. I get that. Even me. I don't like conflict. It doesn't feel good and I can't sleep at night. I'm a very friendly person and I stay very positive. That's how I live my life. But there are other people out there who are in conflict. Some people just like the drama. I understand that but we have to be careful and keep our eye on racism. We have to keep looking at ourselves and ask If I feel upset because of racism or other personal issues. It's a lot of work. It takes a lot of thought. But we have to work together.

40:28
Donna
I like ending on a positive note!

Kevin
It's important to always stay positive. Any time. Thank you for everything. Thank you so much. Thank you for all your support and thank you for listening. Take care.