Liam
Describe the challenges you're experiencing due to COVID in terms of employment – we already talked about that a little: attendant, medical care. Do you see doctors or how is that working for you?

Dynah
Yeah, I think in terms of those areas, I don't know that there is really change for me. Like I don't use attendant care so that hasn't been something that I've had to navigate. I think at the very beginning, one of the challenges that I noticed the most [was] in terms of food shopping and this was like at a time when that was challenging for everybody. I think that has mostly leveled out and I do feel safe pretty much going and doing errands and like one of the places that I shop a lot, Trader Joe's, keeps the numbers of people inside the store really small so there's often a line outside but once you get inside it feels.. I rarely if ever feel uncomfortably crowded in there and I really appreciate that.

I've never actually done the Whole Foods delivery. I should but think I have some level of resentment because Prime shopping has like totally taken over the Whole Foods that I go the most, the one up by you, I mean that Whole Foods is just like an Amazon delivery warehouse, now.

Liam
Part of me does feel like having a disability really just complicates everything and it's so nice to have one thing that's like 'I don't have to worry about that'. I think also I really don't trust myself to be as diligent as other people. I'm not subtle or quick about adjusting my mask or washing my hands, the whole thing. So how about PPE for you?

Dynah
Until I found the kind of mask that I really like that really works for me, I had a hard time. Mostly my issue was not necessarily disability related. I just couldn't find one that was a good fit on my face and would stay on my entire face by itself. But definitely an issue that I had was putting the elastic loops behind my ears. I mean forget about the tie ones, that is not even an option. For a while, I had a very hard time doing that and often, when Embry and I were out together, she would like adjust the mask for me. That's a whole other area that we could get into if you wanted to. Types of mutual supportive relationships that people with disabilities build at this time. So, Embry is like my quarantine buddy and we are like pretty in tune with each other's needs, I guess, and I guess it's the only time when you have 'access intimacy', if you're familiar with that term. And it was just really nice for her to just know that I had this need and ask if I needed help with it and because I feel comfortable on that access intimacy level with her. I'm comfortable with asking her for help or accepting help when she offers it even for something like 'do you need me to put your mask loop behind your ear'. So that's really awesome. That's a big thing that I have gained from this, that relationship and just the idea that that kind of relationship is possible.

I think a lot about the hand washing thing. I mean, pre-COVID I didn't really think about it that much, but its' very hard for me to wash my hands well in most public bathrooms and there are so many factors that effect that in terms of like if there's parts of the sink or the soap or the paper towels are too high, or just out of reach or they're covered in wire or...

Liam
Or you have to with your wet hands wheel your wheelchair [laughs] ...

Dynah
Yes. I hate that. And so, I like I often before just went in and washed my hands or just rinsed my hands and just like think ehhh, disability life – what we gotta do! But now, it's like, is this gonna be like the time I get COVID and I infect all my friends? Fortunately, with the how much our life is inside these days int's not as much of a concern, I suppose. I feel like I'm rarely using public bathrooms. But it's definitely something I think about whenever I do.

But I think there often is way more of a just sort of awareness of access needs in disability spaces and that can be conducive to access intimacy in a way that I think is an awesome and beautiful thing about the disability community.

Liam
Access intimacy, I've not really heard that before but I totally know what you're talking about. Can you say more about that?

Dynah
So 'access intimacy' was coined by Mia Mingus and I'm looking up her blog post, it was written in 2011, and I read it back then and that was like before I really had the same sort of disability consciousness that I do now. But I remember reading this blog post and just kind of being amazed and she says that access intimacy is that elusive, hard to describe feeling when someone else gets your access needs. The kind of eerie comfort that your disabled self feels with someone on a purely access level. And she goes on talking about that sometimes a thing that happens with complete strangers or it can be something built up over a long period of time. I'm reading: "Some people I've experienced the deepest access intimacy with have had no education or exposure to a political understanding of disability." So, yeah, that idea is super important to me and I think I also felt when I read this, I felt like you did, like "yes, that's absolutely something that I recognize." I just didn't have a name for or know that it was a concept that could be talked about like that. I think that, COVID or no COVID, its definitely one of the things that I really love the most about disability community. That's not to say that I experience access intimacy with anyone just because they're disabled. I think that's far from true. But I think there often is way more of a just sort of awareness of access needs in disability spaces and that can be conducive to access intimacy in a way that I think is an awesome and beautiful thing about the disability community.

Liam
Do you think that COVID complicates access intimacy? If I have caregivers that don't have access to PPE, I think there is part of me that feels like living on that level means exposing them to the dangers that I'm exposing myself to?

Dynah
I think those are all really good points. Yeah, I think that [COVID] absolutely does make experiencing access intimacy hard or even just like getting our needs met on any level as disabled people hard, sometimes when a lot of help that I might just like ask a stranger for, or like someone to get something down for me from a high shelf. I don't think people seem to feel fear about that but, especially at the beginning of COVID and perhaps at points in the future if things get worse, I'm not sure how people will feel about that. I know at first, I would go to Trader Joe's and I would get a basket and I would hold the basket out and be, like, would you get that for me? You could just put it in the basket. So yeah, I think that you have a really good point.

Liam
The other day I was on my power chair and I was going to pick up pizza or something, and I like fell into this sort of drainage thing – the street was, like, Philly streets. My chair just totally fell in there and I fell headfirst into the sidewalk. Thankfully I didn't get hurt, but this stranger lifted me up and like got me back. And there were a few strangers who were helping me but it was like so funny that it was like those three people were like 20% of the physical interaction I've had in the past nine months [laughs] besides my immediate family. Maybe intimacy means a lot more now...

Dynah
That's true, too.

Liam
When people touch your shoulder it's like that's sort of a big deal. It's like you don't know what I have, I don't know what you have.

Dynah
That makes me think about how, when I use to use a manual [wheel]chair outdoors exclusively, I would get touched all the time by people who thought that they needed to push me. I don't experience that now that I mostly use a power chair outdoors. But If I was still using a manual chair, I wonder how that experience would be. I hated it, anyway, and it would probably feel even more complicated, now.

We have to look at [virtual platforms] as a bonus instead of sort of a sad, flimsy substitute because that is an awesome way to build community and build disability power and disability spaces.

Liam
What do you think is going to be different in a post-COVID world or the same? This is something I'm wondering about, too. Policies, infrastructure...what do you think about that?

Dynah
As things just sort of slog on with COVID it feels to me like harder and harder in some ways to imagine what it's going to be like. I feel like, you know, when quarantine first started and we all had like a recent memory of doing 'normal' life, it was just the contrast sort of felt more stark. I think I've said when we were talking about employment, like I really hope the idea of remote work and virtual participation is something that continues. And the longer that that happens, it feels to me to be like it's going to be hard for employers to justify like even just the expense of having everybody in an office all the time. So, I really hope that that stays. I know that for me, that just like facilitates being employed, but I think, you know, that for a ton of disabled folks that enables us to be employed. You know, there are some people who are not able to leave their homes. I realize that that there are many reasons that prohibit us from employment that aren't solved by the idea of remote work. But I still think that remote would just, like increase disability employment a lot, or has the potential to. I really like the point that you made talking about how you know, connecting with people far away is... we have to look at that as like a bonus instead sort of a sad, flimsy substitute. And I hope that that continues because that is an awesome way to build community and build disability power and disability spaces.

Liam
My one worry is that, because the pressure has been off for so long, it will be really hard to get people and places to like spend money on ADA [modifications]. We've kind of proven that we, as a society can function without them. 'Why am I spending three million dollars on a ramp or on reconstructing my building when you have your whole Zoom thing and you can do that?'

Dynah
Yeah. You're right. There needs to be awareness of the impact that both things need to happen. We need to increase participating remotely while still increasing our ability to participate in actual physical spaces.