Chapter Transcript
Chapter 2: Education/Living at St. Mary's School
17:18:37:15 - 17:19:03:25
Lisa: Did any of the professionals say to your parents that you should be sent to live someplace else?
Karen: They told me I should live in an institution. They told me I should be in like St. Mary's or someplace like that, that I was such a slow learner.
Lisa: What is St. Mary's?
Karen: It's a Catholic school but I didn't like it. I hated it.
17:19:28:10 - 17:20:15:09
Lisa: You were saying that your parents tried to get some support for you by talking to some psychiatrists and I'm wondering what those doctors said to your parents about...
Karen: I don't remember. I probably left the room. They took me out of there. I don't remember. I was too young.
Lisa: But did they suggest to your parents that you should be sent elsewhere to live?
Karen: They thought maybe like Pennhurst because I was in the waiting list Pennhurst. I was in the waiting list to go to Pennhurst. I was on the waiting list to go to Pennhurst but I didn't get there.
17:20:16:10 - 17:20:48:02
Lisa: Where did you go?
Karen: St. Mary's instead.
Lisa: And tell me a little bit about the kind of place St. Mary's was.
Karen: St. Mary's was actually run by nuns. They used be nasty to you. They weren't very nice to you.
Lisa: Do you remember the day your parents took you to St. Mary's?
Karen: Maybe. I think it was in 62.
17:20:49:00 - 17:21:23:11
Lisa: Do you remember how you felt the day they took you to St. Mary's?
Karen: Disappointed. I didn't really want to go so I thought it was probably for my own good. They said they went last year for a couple weeks but other than that she didn't like that idea. I'm going to let you go home the first week you got there because a lot of kids go home. They went home on weekends like every other weekend or something like that. They didn't let me go for the last two. I didn't want to stay there. I didn't like it.
17:21:28:00 - 17:21:45:20
Lisa: You said that you weren't able to go home every week like some of the other folks.
Karen: Right, I wasn't.
Lisa: Did people come to visit you?
Karen: I don't know if they did or not. I don't remember... I don't remember very much. I wanted to get out of there. It's all I wanted to do.
17:21:47:20 - 17:22:09:08
Lisa: Were you able to make friends while you were at St. Mary's?
Karen: I made a lot of friends, yeah. There was a lot of nice girls there. They took them from ages to like from like two to maybe like seven or twelve. They were actually pretty young when I went there; pretty young. A lot of kids were pretty young.
17:22:11:20 - 17:22:31:20
Lisa: You said that you were able to go home.
Karen: Yeah eventually.
Lisa: How often would you go home?
Karen: Maybe like every other... go home like every other weekend. Like on holidays and stuff like that and maybe on a weekend that wasn't on a holiday they'd let you go home.
17:22:32:20 - 17:23:08:02
Lisa: Were you happy to be at home?
Karen: Yeah. I would always cry when I got home because I never see anybody. I didn't like living there.
Lisa: How did you feel you were treated while you were living there?
Karen: Not very nice. They wouldn't treat you very nice.
Lisa: Can you give me an example of that?
Karen: They would hit you.
Lisa: And why would they do that?
Karen: If you made a mistake they would hit you. I did get hit a couple times.
17:23:10:10 - 17:23:28:28
Lisa: You had mentioned, Karen, that you had been put on the waiting list for Pennhurst although you never lived there. Did you ever have occasion or a reason to visit Pennhurst?
Karen: I visited Pennhurst when I used to be in the Olympics; the Special Olympics. I didn't like what I saw. I didn't like them; the way they were treated.
17:23:29:10 - 17:23:41:00
Lisa: What did you see at Pennhurst?
Karen: I saw people naked and there was never any toilet paper in the bathrooms and I didn't like that. I didn't like to see people treated like that.
17:23:43:10 - 17:24:07:13
Lisa: So how long did you stay at St. Mary's?
Karen: Probably since I was like 25 and then I left. I used to be like off and on basis like on the summer I used to go home with my parents and stuff like that and then I'd come back. I used to work for the sisters.
17:24:07:15 - 17:24:32:04
Lisa: What kind of work did you do for the sisters?
Karen: Usually mostly cleaning up the dorms and stuff like that.
Lisa: Did you stay after you were 18; after you were done with school, did you continue to stay?
Karen: I stayed until I was 25. I graduated when I was 18 then I stayed on and helped them out a little bit.
17:24:34:04 - 17:24:50:03
Lisa: While you were helping out at St. Mary's did you ever think about your future and what you wanted for the rest of your life?
Karen: I wanted to actually not live there. I wanted to live on my own. That's what I wanted to do.
More Interview Chapters
- Early Life
- YOU ARE HERE: Education/Living at St. Mary's School
- Living at Camphill at Kimberton, Early Self-Advocacy
- Self-Advocates Address Safety Issues, Institutions
- Living in the Community
- Work with the Arc of Chester County, Advocating to End the Use of the 'R' Word
- Waiting List
- Reflections on Life, Work
About Karen Hayes
Born: 1954
Self-advocate, Self-determination Board Member, Arc of Chester County
Lynchburg, Virginia
Keywords
ARC, Chester County, Institutions, Pennhurst, "R" word campaign, Self-advocacy, Speaking For Ourselves
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Employment statistics for persons with disabilities continue to be disappointing, ~19% compared to ~66% of peers without disabilities. (US Bureau of Labor Statistics, 2018). We ask ourselves, "is there something beyond overt discrimination and access that perhaps we need to address? Are there silent barriers such as those created by implicit bias?"
Most of us believe that we are fair and equitable, and evaluate others based on objective facts. However, all of us, even the most egalitarian, have implicit biases – triggered automatically, in about a tenth of a second, without our conscious awareness or intention, and cause us to have attitudes about and preferences for people based on characteristics such as age, gender, race, ethnicity, sexual orientation, disability, and religion. These implicit biases often do not reflect or align with our conscious, declared beliefs.(American Bar Association, Commission on Disability Rights, "Implicit Bias Guide," 2019)
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